Former Ukrainian PM Yatsenyuk: If you need optimism in the EU, come to Kyiv

On a visit to Brussels, former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk sat in a Brussels hotel to talk to EUalive’s editor Georgi Gotev, on 15 October 2025. Yatsenyuk served two terms as Prime Minister of Ukraine – from 27 February 2014 to 27 November 2014 and from 27 November 2014 to 14 April 2016

We have met before and my usual question is, what brings you to Brussels?

Well, it’s not only Brussels. I had a very long diplomatic and advocacy trip. It started in Paris, then I moved to Stockholm, then to Warsaw, then to London, then I moved to Washington, and now I’m in Brussels. It is a long trip, a long haul, to boost the support of Ukraine, because right now, I believe that we are at the inflection point.

And what does it mean, the inflection point?

If Ukraine wins, this is the only guarantee for the European security. If Ukraine fails, this is the guarantee the Russians will move further into European territory. They already did it. NATO territory, they already did it.

If you mean Poland, it was an airspace violation. But here, nobody thinks that Putin is so crazy. He’s sending a few drones here and there, maybe to gather intelligence, but he’s not going to send troops, is he?

I remember the same stuff before 2014 and before 2022. I’ve had the same the same voices. Even my people in Ukraine did the same. When I went to the TV three months before the war and publicly said that we need to impose martial law because Putin is going to invade, he encircled Ukraine with 175,000 of soldiers. And I said, “You believed they went on excursion just to look at the seaside on the Ukrainian border. He’s going to invade”. And you know what was happening in the audience? My approval rating was going just down. Nose dive, nobody believed me, three months before the war.

But we are where we are, and there are several options. One is to take some bolder steps. Like taking the frozen Russian funds? Or maybe something else?

There is no just one single silver bullet, no to win this war. What is needed to win this war a comprehensive set of different actions. The action that you’ve just mentioned, it’s to use the Russian funds, because I was told do not say to confiscate. Okay. I said, okay, I’m fine with avoiding the word “confiscate” to use the Russian sovereign assets as the collateral for the reparation loan to Ukraine. That’s a legal definition, but Russians say that this is a confiscation of assets. Well, let’s call it a recovery or reparation loan. It’s just one piece of deposit, because we need to finance this.

We know the Russians. You know them. I know them. They’re going to ask Ukraine for reparations for whatever damage was caused to their refineries and whatever.

I wish them good luck.

But they could say reparations are two-way.

No, no, they couldn’t. So we are ready to see each other in court, in the international court, in the special tribunal, to any kind of internationally recognized court.

Well, as long as Putin is in power, this scenario is unlikely. I mean, without Putin, everything is possible, but with Putin, there will be reprisals. Russia will seize property of European countries. Some countries are, of course, reluctant. How do you react to that?

I don’t buy this narrative completely. We don’t buy this narrative completely because Russia committed an act of aggression. Russia blatantly violated international law. Russia in killing, raping and abducting children, killing raping Ukrainian people and abducting children, Russia invaded a sovereign country. The damage is around $500 billion as of now, Russian Sovereign’s assets have to be used in order to recover this damage, period. If Russia wants to go to court, we would be happy and to see Putin in Hague.

Well, he will not go to the International Criminal Court. He will not.

I don’t give a shit what he wants. I’m sorry. I don’t give a shit what he wants. That’s not my business. My business is to defend the homeland, and if he wants to do something, so we are ready to see him, to face him in court.

What do official people tell you when you have the same narrative?

Official people do understand the implications of Ukraine’s failure. Everyone understands this, because this would be a disaster for the European Union and for the Western civilization.

But what do they say about confiscating assets?

That’s what I am telling you. So that’s how I am telling they invented so called special purpose vehicle. Special purpose vehicle is how to use the Russian sovereign assets as a collateral in order to provide financial lifeline to Ukraine.

Yeah, but each time that I hear about the special instrument, special vehicle, it means they don’t want to do anything.

Yeah, that’s another part of the problem, because we are facing a lack of political will. But on the one hand, there is a lack of political will. On the other hand, there is a real fear of Ukraine to lose the war, and of Europe actually to lose the war, and of NATO to lose the war, and tips of the scale go in favor of using Russian sovereign assets as a collateral.

And what happens if the United States give Ukraine Tomahawks, while Russia says it basically lowers the nuclear threshold, because, as they explain, they are not sure if the Tomahawk missile has a nuclear payload or not. Is it a good move for Ukraine to receive the Tomahawk missile?

You know why Russia is saying this?

Well, because they want us to be afraid.

Correct! So you provided the perfect answer.

A lot of people are afraid, let me tell you.

I know that they are afraid, and my reply to these people will be as follows, the more you are afraid, the higher chances that you will be invaded, and my country faces the same, absolutely the same perception, completely the same.

Some in Europe say we are far away. And maybe Putin has got enough, he suffered enough losses. He is not going to do anything foolish in addition to what he already did.

I just have one question. If these people think like that, tell me the reason why there was an assassination plot against your Prime Minister, the Prime Minister of Belgium?

It’s probably the Russian secret services going rogue. I think that the Russian secret services are very weak now, and probably they do what they can to please their master, and this is why they don’t obtain great results.

But look the message I’m trying to deliver to you: that your Prime Minister [Bart De Wever] was attacked. It was an assassination attempt at your Prime Minister. So what kind of additional evidence people have to get? Your system is under attack, your Prime Minister was under assassination plot. They target your cyber systems. They launch drones into your space. So what kind of arguments I should invent? I’m just wondering, maybe I’m living in some different world.

Well, you know, I live in Belgium, and I can say that many Belgians do not really believe that their Prime Minister’s life is threatened.

That’s the problem of those who don’t believe. People believe what they want to believe. I believe in facts. You have an amazing Minister of Defence [Theo Francken] who is right to the point. I wish to have this kind of defence ministers all over Europe. He knows what’s happening on the ground, and I fully share his take on everything, including his reservations over the idea to seize the Russian assets. He has the argument, because there was a number of arguments, and the European Union has to resolve this arguments. I buy this.

Ukraine too has secret services, they are efficient and able to surprise the enemy and hit deep inside Russia. Maybe this could perhaps convince Putin that it’s in his interest to end the war. Is this a viable scenario?

Well, again, that’s just one of the tools. You know, I’m not sure that just with an idea to hit oil refineries would be a game changer for Putin. You mentioned Tomahawks. Again, Tomahawks, it’s not a game changer, but it’s an additional leverage, I would say. It is an additional leverage to press Putin to reconsider his strategic goal, because his strategic goal is definitely to take over Ukraine, to undermine NATO and the European Union. He wants to restore the spheres of interest.

Okay, Tomahawks are not game changer. What is game changer?

The game changer, as I told you, it’s everything. It’s ammunition, it’s financial support, it’s tough sanctions, jointly imposed by the European Union and the United States. It’s a new security supplemental from the United States. It’s a pressure on China, because China pretends to be neutral, but it is providing a lifeline. And a very tough and I would say, incentivizing dialog with India and those who help Russia to circumvent sanctions. This is the formula, so you don’t have just a magic wand, you know, with one Tomahawk to fix the war. That’s not the way it works in contemporary world.

Could China play a positive role?

I don’t see that China can play a positive role. But what I see is that the joint pressure of the European Union and the United States can make at least China to be more neutral, because it isn’t neutral. It is a clear-cut, friend, ally and accomplice of Russia.

Some say it’s in China’s interest that the war continues, simply because it keeps the Americans busy from tackling China.

I share this opinion and not only because it’s in the interest of China to make Russia to win this war. Because in this way, China will get a green way to the European Union because China wants, wants to have a European Union as its sphere of interest. Russia’s economy is less than Italy. Russia is completely dependent right now on China, completely in everything. So it’s a subsidiary of China made company.

What do you think happened between February, we remember the meeting of the President of Ukraine in the White House and today, when obviously things have tremendously changed?

I was told in Washington that President Trump really acted in a good faith, and he believed that he can bring peace to Ukraine, and he believed that he can get some kind of concessions from Putin in Alaska, but Putin played him, and Trump has realized it, and his close entourage has realized this, and Trump won’t allow to be humiliated. You saw this press conference on the Gaza peace plan in Egypt, where he gathered all global leaders. It’s clear that he has completely changed his calculus and his perception of Putin. And that’s the very reason why my president is to visit Washington [on Friday], and I hope that this will be a success. The Europeans did a very good job, and I do really commend all European leaders, both in the European Commission, Ursula, Alexander Stubb, NATO General Secretary Rutte, the Prime Minister of UK Starmer and his national security adviser, French President Macron. After the Alaska meeting, they traveled to DC, they got the ear of the President. My president has realized that it’s a completely different administration than the previous one, and this administration needs a different approach, and that’s the reason as of now President Trump wants to support Ukraine.

He has started to understand the situation.

Yes, that’s what I thought. He has realized that that’s not the way he expected to see the situation is to evolve.

So you praised Europe. You know, we don’t hear many compliments regarding Europe these days.

And I will tell you why, because they are our allies. We have to rely on our allies. Yes, there are huge flaws in Europe, huge flaws. But flaws exist everywhere, so we definitely need quicker, better, faster, more bold decisions, but at least we have those who are trying to make these decisions. I wish these decisions to be made quicker.

I remember after February, speaking to my Ukrainian friends, they said, forget about the US, now we can count only on the European Union. Now, the situation is better, isn’t it?

Yeah, the situation is better. But I never said that we can count only on Europe. No, no way. And I was always saying that we can’t win this war without the Americans, period. This was my message, always. That’s due to the financial resources, military resources, intelligence, reconnaissance. The Western world has two pillars. It is the European Union and the United States. The same goes with NATO. It is the European Union, the United Kingdom as a country that possesses nuclear deterrence, and the United States, you can’t just grab one leg of this stool.

How does Europe look in your eyes, there is a political crisis, a never ending crisis in France. And there is a lack of optimism overall in Europe.

I will tell you this way, if you lack optimism, please go to Ukraine, and you will have an enormous source of optimism. We are under never ending shellings and missile attacks and drone attacks and Russian attacks, and we are in the state of war for 11 years. This war has been going on for 11 years. We are exhausted. We are tired. We are just drained. But we are not broken. This is the way democracy works. The only appeal I have to the European leaders is: folks, speak candidly and openly to your voters. Don’t play with the voters. Otherwise, you are playing with the future of the countries, of every single country. Tell them the truth, even in case, if you going to lose your office, like I did. Okay, I am the first prime minister in the history of Ukraine who resigned voluntarily, but I stood my ground. So tell the voters what you really believe in. Don’t give them any kind of illusions, because if you lie to them, the time will come when people will face the reality, and they are going to hate you for your entire life, for the eternity. That’s my message to Europeans. And act!

Caption: Arseniy Yatsenyuk on 27 November 2018, speaking to Georgi Gotev.